WU Jin
I was surprised when I first saw the works of LI Zhi Hong. His works gave me many imaginations on his life experiences. I also saw his new works later, and they always gave me surprises and the feelings of beauty. When I felt that the art of the “post 70’s” would be settled, LI Zhi Hong came out as a miracle. He didn’t have formal institutional education, and before 2004, he had not really painted and paintings. He started the painting creation a year before in 2006 when he was 36 years old. It was the cyclic year of his birth year that he painted a group of “maiden works” named “The Cyclic Year of the Birth Year” and he started his career as an artist then. Up to now, he is still an amateur artist. He is a formal employee of a power company for which he has worked for 12 years. Recently, he felt unhappy as he was not promoted by his company. Those paintings named “The Cyclic Year of the Birth Year” really moved me, and I could not imagine that they were made by an amateur artist who just started his career of painting. Starting from the time I talked with him about this article, I was inclined increasingly to believe that LI Zhi Hong might be a “talent”. It was pressed by the strength of the fate that he found himself and he got liberated through art. In a sunny morning, in the coffee shop of Beijing 798, facing the pickup camera, LI Zhi Hong didn’t feel anything uncomfortable and talked endlessly about his experiences and feeling of life… He is already a mature man after he has passed his third cyclic year of his birth year. For this talk, he took the train for over 20 hours from Jiangxi to Beijing the day before the talk, and after the talk, he took the train on the same day at night over 20 hours back home. He said that he felt a little bit scared of the life in the big city. When I wrote here, I thought of myself. When I was 18 years old, I also took the train over 30 hours to Beijing and was drowned out in that noisy city since then. I even could not go back to that small town with green hills and clear waters in my memory. From this point, I felt that LI Zhi Hong might be happy.
Talk: WU Jin= Wu
LI Zhi hong=Li
Time: Aug. 28, 2007
Place: The Art District of Beijing 798
Wu: Have you come to Beijing more often recently?
Li: I came once last year, and this is my second time. I came if there was an exhibition. It is limited by the conditions, and it is too far away. I could not come often like that.
Wu: What is your state of life generally?
Li: Work, paint and go home. I do housework often, and I enjoy doing it.
Wu: What is your work?
Li: A kind of propaganda work of trade union.
Wu: What do you do actually?
Li: Something like making posters, keeping files of the members of the trade union, or organizing the meetings of the representatives of the workers. The meeting will be held once a year and it is busy at that time. Otherwise, there isn’t much work to do.
Wu: How long have you taken that work?
Li: More than 12 years.
Wu: You have worked like that for 12 years.
Li: Yes.
Wu: Have you ever thought of changing the work?
Li: I have thought of changing it all the time. I wanted to change it ever since I joined this company.
Wu: How would you like to change?
Li: I want to paint, and I like painting. I am not interested in anything else. Basically, I do not suit to that work.
Wu: Do you suit to that work now?
Li: No, I don’t suit to that work now.
Wu: You don’t suit to that work now, but you still keep that work.
Li: I can’t help it as it is limited by the objective conditions. Others are in the same situations, but they can choose to leave. For example, they can give lessons at schools, or their parents may give them some support, but I can’t, I must support the life of myself. I can’t depend life on painting as I am not a professional painter. I had not learned painting formally before 2004, and I only took a book and painted according to the book. I am self-studied, I taught myself.
Wu: What is your city called?
Li: Ganzhou in Jiangxi Province.
Wu: What does Ganzhou look like?
Li: It is a small city with green hills and clear waters. It is a place where Zhangjiang River and Gongjiang River joins together. The word “Gan” is with the word “Zhang” on the left and the word “Gong” on the right, and it has the taste of the man of letters.
Wu: So, yours is a small place with a background of man of letters.
Li: It feels like that. But it has no well-known scholars. Once, when a tourist guide took the visitors out, he said that the geomancy there took the talents away. He said something like that. Our Zhangjiang River and Gongjiang River are two small rivers and they join together and form the big Ganjiang River that flows to the Yangtze River through Jiujiang River in Nanchang. This is not a good geomancy, and the talents will flow away. That is why there are no well-known persons for many years. But a lot of well-known persons came to our place. For example, Wang Yangming.Su Dongbo also came to our place for a while.
Wu: How did you learn painting?
Li: When I was in high school, I didn’t like the school lessons. It was all right if I could get the graduation diploma. I enjoyed reading books and I read all kinds of books. I liked to play at that time and I liked football. After graduating from high school, I was confused and didn’t know what to do. I must find a job, then, I worked for a decoration company and did the labor work. I installed the aluminum alloy windows for over a month and I didn’t think that I should spend my lifetime like that. One day, a former classmate of mine came to me. I was a stamp collector at that time and had a set of stamps of Chinese paintings of Qi Bashi. The paintings were very beautiful and I bought some paper and made copies of the paintings. My classmate asked me why I didn’t take the exam for painting schools if I liked painting. I was surprised and asked him if there were painting schools that taught painting. I started to be concerned with the matter. I bought some books related with the exams of painting schools. I also bought some books of making sketches and learned it by myself. I was shy in personality, and afraid to take my paintings to teachers to ask for advice. I didn’t know any teachers actually and I studied like that for about two years. I started to learn in 1989 till the end of 1990 when I joined the army. During these two years, I took the exam for the painting department of a local teachers’ college and I failed. I didn’t like that it would rather make a square than make a round. When I read painting books, I felt that the sketches made by Da Vinci were good. From my heart, I didn’t like the things that would rather be a square than be a round. So, I could not pass the exam. At that time, it was all right if I could paint something like the real things. I didn’t pass the exam, and at the same time I was advanced in ages. My father said to me: you should consider it carefully, if you didn’t go to join the army, what should you do in future? You didn’t have a job, what would you do? You might not be a good painter. Then, I thought that it was also good to be an army man, and it solved the problem of joblessness and I could support myself. So, I joined the army in 1990 and served in the army for three years. At that time, a friend of mine, also a painting learner, in the county wrote a letter to me and said that I didn’t suit to be an army man. He knew my personality well and understood that I would not like to be disciplined. In fact, he was proved to be right.
Wu: You didn’t suit to the army.
Li: No. I was a kind of extrovert person with unrestrained personality. When you talked about me with the leaders and army men in the army, they didn’t have good impression on me. In the army, what should I say, I didn’t do anything to hurt others, but it was obvious that I did something undisciplined, such as to have long hair and drink alcohol. When the higher-ups came to check up, they asked why the soldier kept longhair. They ordered to cut out my hair, but no one dared to do it. Then they asked my best friend to cut my hair for me, so I simply let him have my head shaved. At the time I was in the army, I would not like to be disciplined. I only cared about how I should live, and I did a lot of things like that. So up to now, the one who left deepest and worst impression to the leaders of the army is me.
Wu: What kind of soldier were you?
Li: I was in the rear-service department of the army, and there were more officers than soldiers there. I didn’t need to take field operation exercises. I was a kind of functionary in the army and took care of the letters and newspapers. I worked around the leaders in the army, and generally speaking, it was easy for those who were around the leaders to join the communist party, but I was in the army for three years I didn’t join the party. Actually, I even didn’t write the application to join the party. I knew it was the leaders who made troubles with me. Later, in my third year in the army, the commissar transferred me to work in the power station, then, I had more time to paint. The commissar understood me and let me do some propaganda work for the army. I made posters, wrote calligraphy and drew paintings for the army. Basically, I did these after work in my spare time. My army was in the suburban mountains near Fuzhou, and once a week I would have a chance to go to Fuzhou city. I would take the chance to buy some painting materials and books in the city. Then, I could copy paintings. I copied the paintings of Yang Feiyun, Wang Yuqi, and Wang Yidong, and all of them were classical works.
Wu: At that time in the army, was there anybody who said that you painted good paintings?
Li: The officers and soldiers in the army were not artists, so they always felt that I painted good paintings. But I knew my painting level myself, actually, I was clear about it.
Wu: Have you worked in this company ever since you left army in 1993, the power supply bureau?
Li: The power supply bureau, that is called power supply company now.
Wu: You said that you had stopped painting for 7 years. So, did you make it when you were in the power supply company?
Li: Yes, I stopped painting for 7 years. On one hand, it was because I did not suit to the work, and on the other, I really loved painting and I wanted to leave the place. I was really depressed at that time.
Wu: I felt like that you could not change the reality.
Li: No, I could not change the reality. How could I change it? I should support my life myself and nobody could support you economically. My parents were unable to support me either.
Wu: Were there painters around you?
Li: No.
Wu: Not at all.
Li: No, even the teachers in the teachers’ college, only few of them really liked painting, not to say students. I was very depressed at that time, and it was to the extent that whenever I went to the office I felt that I could not lift up legs. I didn’t want to go to work, but I didn’t have other choices and I had to work. In 1997, I got sick without reasons. Then, I went to Beijing to see doctors. I came to Beijing in 1996 for the first time to have a tour with my colleagues, and this was my second time to come to Beijing and I came to see doctors. I had a very low salary at that time and the medicine expenses in Beijing could not be reimbursed, so I had both work pressures as well as economic pressures. The lost of ideal and the poor health made me very depressed. As a result, I got sick and sick again. I felt that I could not live up to 60 years old, and I just felt like that. In 1998, a former painter friend of mine who worked as a designer in Shenzhen asked me to do design work with him in Shenzhen. I wanted to be away from my state of life at that time, so I learned computer and plane design and got ready to go. But the moment I made up my mind to go I got sick again. So, I thought to myself, it was over, and I would not think of anything else and I would not paint anymore.
Wu: What was the reason for your sickness?
Li: The bad mood. I felt that I got depression at that time, but it didn’t seem likely sometimes, it was not to such an extent. Relatively speaking, I was sensible, so I said that I would not think of anything else and I would not paint anymore. You didn’t like your job and you wanted to change the state of your mind. Some people didn’t like cooking, but if you took cooking as a kind of enjoyment you wouldn’t feel tired of it. I just thought of it that way at that time. I stopped painting, and I did my work with as much happy mood as possible. As I had to do it, I did it with happy mood. I played cards after work, and as I did propaganda work for the company I had a camera, so I also took photos sometimes. I got relaxed gradually in my heart. In 2000, I got recovered slightly, and I started to think of painting again.
Wu: How many years were you sick?
Li: Actually, up to 2004, it was about 7 or 8 years.
Wu: What were the most serious conditions of your sickness?
Li: In the worst time, I could not work anymore. I could only stay at home. In 2000, there came another opportunity for me. A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to open a photo shop. I was slightly recovered at that time, and I wanted to do something. But the moment I prepared myself to go out, I was sick again. Suddenly I got a feeling, but what did I feel? There was a sentence in the “Bible” saying that when the God closed the door for you, he must open a window for you. I got a feeling, and I felt that something there asked me to paint.
Wu: So, your sickness reminded you that there were other possibilities for you.
Li: Yes. There was a hint, but it was up to you to feel it. I got the feeling, and I really felt it. Later, after 2000, the company raised fund to build houses, and in 2003, the houses were built up. After I paid back the loans for housing, I re-started to paint. At that time, I painted with a relatively relaxed mood, as I had a higher salary at that time, and I had my own house and a baby. Others used the money to buy cars, and I used it for painting. So, in 2004, I spent one month in Beijing to learn sketching.
Wu: Where did you learn sketching?
Li: At Wang Huaxiang’s “Flying Land”.
Actually, it was only 26 days. It started on Sept. 8 and ended on Oct. 4. I learned sketching at Flying Land. Others asked me what I could learn within such a short time, but I felt that I was greatly touched. I got to know some painter friends and I read some books. Wang Huaxiang didn’t talk much about art with the students as he always taught sketching, but he told us something with deep meanings that I remembered in my heart. Before I went back, I bought some books of modern art in Beijing.
Wu: Did you come to learn sketching during the vocations?
Li: I asked for a month leave from the leaders.
Wu: You mentioned just now that you bought some books in Beijing.
Li: “The Situations of Contemporary Art in China” and “The Modernism and Post-modernism in the West”, I bought these two books. I read these two books and I thought of them afterwards. I also bought some “Modern Art” magazines before and they talked about Fang Lijun and something about him. The year 2006 was the cyclic year of my birth year, and I got a strong feeling in the cyclic year of my birth year. I wanted to paint something, something that totally belonged to myself. Before that, I painted something realistic, and I could only paint one painting a year.
Wu: What was the reason for you to make the change?
Li: In 2004, when I was at the Flying Land I got some knowledge on modern art. I said at that time that I would paint something realistic for another two years, then, I would change after two years.
Wu: Did you have such a feeling at that time?
Li: I said it to my friends, and as a result, I changed in 2006, and it was just in two years time.
Wu: It explained your personality. In the marrow of your bones, you were not classical type.
Li: You are right. You were not satisfied with something like that and you didn’t have the impulse to paint. But you painted realistically for so long a time, and you should really make something. I always thought of making some good paintings in two years, but actually, I only made some drafts in these two years and I could not paint. Then, in 2006, I prepared to do something myself. I bought more books at that time and read more books. I could use the internet at that time and I saw something in the internet. In the first half of 2006, I prepared myself, and in Aug. 2006, I started to paint the first batch f paintings. Relatively speaking, the first batch of paintings still had light and shade, the structures, the shapes and etc. I didn’t feel right about the first batch of paintings, and I felt that they should be simpler and give stronger feelings. Then, I made some changes and painted flatter.
Wu: What was your feeling in the cyclic year of your birth year?
Li: Someone told me that the fate of the cyclic year of one’s birth year would be specially good or specially bad. And relatively speaking, it was bad for most of the people. But why the fate was bad in the cyclic year of one’s birth year? It was because in that year it was easy to offend the far superior in power. That was to say that in the nether world, there was something that could suppress you, but it would not do it generally. But in the cyclic year of one’s birth year, it would come out to suppress one’s good fortune. I felt that my fate in 2006 was really not very good.
Wu: Was it not good on what respect?
Li: Actually, I felt that it was not good, but … looking back, it was not bad at all. I felt bad as I was not promoted for many years. But looking back, actually, I had good luck that year.
Wu: It was because your window was open.
Li: Yes, the window was open. At the beginning, I felt that the door was closed, but when looking back, the window was really open. At the time, the leader was loose on you. He would let you do whatever you liked to do and would not have any requirement on you. It would be all right if you could do you job. So, looking back, l had a good luck, especially in August, I could paint.
Wu: After you painted this batch of paintings, how would feel about these paintings? Did you have any expectation on the paintings?
Li: It was funny. I painted these paintings in August, and in October, I came to see the exhibition of Fang Lijun in Today’s Art Gallery. After the exhibition, a friend of mine brought me to visit 798. I said at that time that I would hold an exhibition at 798 even I should pay for it myself.
Wu: But as I know, you had only painted two paintings at that time.
Li: You are right. I painted 5 or 6 paintings from August to October. I said at that time I would hold an exhibition at 798. When I signed the contract with the gallery this year, the exhibition would be in the Yanhuang Art Museum, but just a few days before the exhibition, the gallery moved to 798, and this would be the first exhibition. My friends all said that I was a little bit neurotic, but I really felt something. If you could feel it, you would say it was real, but if you could not feel it, you would say it was neurotic. That is what I believe.
Wu: Why did you want to hold an exhibition at 798?
Li: When I visited the galleries at 798, I noticed that there were a lot of paintings better than mine, but I felt that my paintings were also good. So, I had the qualification to hold an exhibition here.
Wu: Do you feel that you wanted to prove yourself by holding this exhibition? Or are there other motives?
Li: The motives are not that simple. In 2006, I wanted to make a thorough change. Before I painted these paintings, I had house, clothes, and food, that is to say I could paint whatever I wanted, and I could paint whatever I thought as good. If I could not sell it, I could give it to others, and if I could not give it to others, I might fire it up. With this idea in my mind I painted, and I prepared myself not to have praise from others.
Wu: Do you want to change your life?
Li: Yes, there are such kinds of factors. There are many factors. The principle of art is the same as that of politics and philosophy, that means the art is not something to be hung on the wall at home and only service the need of one person and for him see it. You should put out what you think and let others see it.
Wu: What did you think when you see the exhibition of Fang Lijun?
Li: Fang Lijun’s way of thinking has influenced me greatly. From his paintings, I understood that art could be done like that. They are enlightenment for me.
Wu: You have seen the exhibition of Fang Lijun, and found that the success of an artist is rather attractive.
Li:Yes, yes. He received rich economic rewards. It is impossible for a person to have no desire for personal fame and gain, but one should be dim about it. You should not think of it when you are making the creation. I am a kind of extrovert person, but I don’t want to be too tired. I don’t want to be too tired for the sake of making money. My friends said that I am cold and detached in appearance but wild in heart. I am a kind of person who would not be subordinated to the things of others. I always feel this is not good and that is not good either.
Wu: Regarding your works, your creation, and your understanding of art, what is your superiority?
Li: My superiority, it might be in the respect of my idea content that is different from others. My experiences are different from others. The things I have made, the topics concerning fate, I haven’t seen anybody else does it, at least I haven’t seen it yet.
Wu: Different from yours, from different angles.
Li: My angle is, it is the angle of superstition.
Wu: Is life unpredictable?
Li: Fate is unpredictable. I always feel that something in the nether world that decides the destiny.
Wu: How would you like Zhang Xiaogang’s big family series?
Li: Zhang Xiaogang is an artist who influences me greatly.
Wu: He is also talking about fate. He talks about the blood relationship, but actually, it is also fate.
Li: His cut-in angle of fate is different from mine.
Wu: Different in what respect?
Li: Mine would be more incredible. I feel that what he said was not clear, but what I said was clearer. What I said was rather incredible, and I am clearer than him on this point. What he said was not as straight- forward as I said. I asked directly where the fate came from and who decided it. I am different from him on this point.
Wu: You have raised the questions.
Li: But I could not answer them now, so I am reading books of Buddhism recently. For example the karma retribution, people can see it and many people believe in it. But for the samsara, nobody has seen it. Even if the senior monk said that he had seen it, you would not believe it, wouldn’t you?
Wu: Is it related with your works?
Li: Basically, my paintings presently talk about fate from people’s beliefs and concept of value. Actually, it is a small angle. I shall talk about it and express it from the angle of human nature. I am looking for the subject matters now, and will express the fate of people from the angle of human nature.
Wu: Do you also read philosophy of the west?
Li: Very little.
Wu: How about literature?
Li: I haven’t read much about literature. The books I read most are Chinese philosophy. I feel that the highest intelligence of human beings is the idea of Laozi, but Laozi’s idea was rather extensive and Zhuangzi made it more intensive.
Wu: Are the figures in your paintings those around you?
Li: It includes my wife, my daughter and me. I mainly painted my daughter. Why did I paint my daughter? At the beginning, I wanted to paint myself. At that time, I sent my daughter to the kindergarten everyday. When she entered the primary school, I sent her to school everyday. She was in the same primary school as I was. She had lessons almost the same as I had, and she did the exercises the same as I had also. So, I felt that to express her was to express myself. But her environment has totally changed. The people of post 80’s, post 90’s and post 2000 are totally different from us. But they have the education almost the same as we had. The textbooks have not changed much and exercises have not changed either, and even the teachers are those who had taught us. Basically, I feel that one could get away from his fate track. People are the same like that. My father worked in that company, and I took him over to work in that company. His leader now is the mother of my leader. How will you explain it?
Wu: Do you want to be a monk? Or do you want to be a professional painter?
Li: I had thought of it. I wanted to be converted to it at the beginning, and wanted to be a monk later, but I still could not solve the problem of samsara. So, I don’t think you would be happy even if you were a professional painter. I thought it objectively, you wanted something that you didn’t have, but when you got it you still would not feel happy. I wanted to be a professional painter before, I wanted to be an artist and hold exhibitions so that I could earn money. Now, I nearly get it, actually I am not excited about it in fact.
Wu: What do you think the life in the city?
Li: When I was in my small city, my colleagues always said that if they had 5 millions, they would stop working. The houses in our place are cheap, and the city is rather small and you don’t need to buy cars, and it is convenient to go anywhere. It should be said that the people in our place are simple and honest. But When I got off the train and took a taxi on the road of Beijing, I felt strongly that even if you had 50 millions you wouldn’t feel you had much money at this place. It gave you the kind of impetuous feeling.
Wu: What feeling will you have if you are left in that place?
Li: I don’t know what will happen, I really don’t know. I will be a little bit scared. I will be a little bit scared, really.
Wu: How about the paintings? Do you think your present paintings, these flat paintings, do you think you will continue doing it like that?
Li: I am not sure about it.
Wu: Or will you have a change very soon?
Li: I am not sure about it. If I don’t think the flat paintings are enough, I will make three-dimensioned ones.
Wu: I feel that your superiority is in your…
Li: Thinking.
Wu: But your paintings are very interesting. I think your flat control is outstanding.
Li: I don’t like those things with fine works, and I feel that they are overdone. Simple and honest, I believe that the simple and honest things will touch people. When I look at the paintings of children, I will be moved. But when I look at the paintings with high skills, I feel they are overdone.
Wu: Where do you think the possibilities of your generation, the so- called “post 70’s” are?
Li: It should say that the “post 70’s” have more weak points than strong points. The generation of “post 60’s” had experienced their times, and their social ideology was totally different from it now. The “post 80’s” had another kind of social ideology. The “post 70’s” is in the middle of them. That means they don’t have strong feelings about those two ideologies. The “post 70’s”, as the spine of the book, has a rather small space.
Wu: The transition period has the ideology of the transition period that might be more special.
Li: That means from the angle of a connecting link between the preceding and the following, the “post 70’s” will have its position in artistic history, but it won’t give so strong feelings to people.
Wu: How big do you think your space will be? What idea or ambition or plan do you have?
Li: I have got an idea when I talked about transition with you. It was not strong before, but now, I have got the idea. It might be the expression of transition. Such social ideology will influence the transition of the fate of life. It is by accident, but there is something like that.
Wu: Do you plan to give up the life now, and come to Beijing to be a professional painter?
Li: It needs time. When I am mature in art and successful in market, I would have a peaceful mood to suit the life in the big city.
Wu: Not now.
Li: Not now, it is rather difficult.
Wu: I feel that you are a person in the actual life.
Li: Yes.
